|
In May of 2004 the
play "Sin: A Cardinal Disposed" was playing in several locations including
Boston and Chicago. It is one view of the sexual abuse and credibility crises within the
Catholic Church.
Below is another proposed play centered on the similar tragedies that
started becoming public in
Dallas years before the Boston tragedy was addressed in "Sin: A Cardinal Disposed."
This play could be called "Bishop Grahmann Testified." It was
originally composed by Bishop Charles
Grahmann and Windle Turley as Mr. Turley questioned Bishop Grahmann during the
1997 Dallas sexual abuse liability trial. The testimony was
regarding actions and omissions by Catholic leaders that
allowed children to be sexually abused. It is taken from the
transcript of
Bishop Grahmann's trial testimony, line 11 of page
7598 through line 19 of page 7616.
Bishop
Grahmann Testified
The scene is a
Dallas District Court. The Bishop is on the witness stand.
11 THE COURT:
Please state your full, legal name
12 for the record.
13 BISHOP
GRAHMANN: Charles Victor Grahmann.
14 THE COURT:
Okay. You may proceed.
15 MR. TURLEY:
Thank you, Your Honor.
16 THE COURT:
You're welcome.
17
18 (MOST REVEREND
BISHOP CHARLES VICTOR GRAHMANN,
19 the witness,
having been duly sworn and cautioned to tell
20 the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth,
21 testified on
his oath as follows:
22 DIRECT
EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. TURLEY:
)
24 Q. Good
afternoon, Bishop.
25 A. Good
afternoon.
7599
01 Q. Bishop,
unfortunately, this is the first day
02 I have been
short of voice. And I will do my very best to
03 keep it up, but
it is going away a little bit on me here.
04 Bishop, tell
the jury what your present
05 duties are here
with the Dallas Catholic Diocese.
06 A. I'm the
Bishop of the Catholic Diocese of
07 Dallas.
08 Q. You are the
supervisor, the employer, the
09 in-charge man
for all of the priests within this Dallas
10 Diocese?
11 A. I am the
pastoral shepherd of all other
12 people and
priests of the Diocese.
13 Q. You manage
them; do you not?
14 A. Within the
boundaries of the law.
15 Q. You're the
supervisor.
16 A. Within the
boundaries of the Code of Canon
17 law.
18 Q. And you
assign them to their tasks.
19 A. Within the
boundaries degrees of Code of
20 Canon law.
21 Q. Bishop, when
you came here, I understand it
22 was in 1990
that you assumed command of this Diocese?
23 A. That's
right. I was appointed as the
24 Bishop of the
Diocese.
25 Q. When I --
when you came here, it's my
7600
01 understanding
from your deposition, that no one briefed you
02 at that time on
the Father Rudy Kos problems.
03 A. No.
04 Q. And the
person who, I guess, who most
05 likely, most
reasonably should have given that you briefing
06 was Monsignor
Rehkemper, your Vicar General.
07 A. Possibly.
08 Q. Do I
understand that at the time you came
09 here, you did
not have presented to you a file, even a file
10 on the Kos/boy
problem?
11 A. No files
were presented to me.
12 Q. And you had
arrived just a few months after
13 a lady by the
name of Allen, from Ennis, testified earlier
14 in this case
that she had sent you or sent to Bishop
15 Tschoepe and
Monsignor Rehkemper a letter in which she
16 contained a
paragraph saying the boys are continuing -- are
17 saying
overnight, on a regular basis, in the rectory, with
18 Father Kos over
in Ennis. That letter was not on your desk
19 or anyplace
around when you arrived, I guess.
20 A. Not aware of
that letter.
21 Q. Father, when
you gave your sworn deposition
22 testimony, you
testified under oath that Father Williams
23 had not told
you and didn't -- you didn't know that boys
24 were staying
overnight when you talked to Father Williams
25 that first
time.
7601
01 A. I don't
remember him telling me they were
02 spending the
night. He told me they were hanging around
03 the rectory.
04 Q. And you also
testified that you didn't even
05 know when you
first learned that they were staying
06 overnight; do
you remember that?
07 A. When -- when
Williams came to see me, that's
08 correct.
09 Q. Well, I
understood you to say, on page 59 of
10 your
deposition, that Father Williams did not tell you that
11 the boys were
staying overnight.
12 A. I'm not
aware that he told me that. He told
13 me they were
hanging around the rectory.
14 Q. Okay. But,
Bishop, there came a time when
15 you sat down
and made some notes about this matter, didn't
16 you?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Have you
reviewed those notes before you've
19 come here to
testimony today?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Actually,
contrary to your sworn testimony,
22 Bishop, in your
notes, when Father Williams came to talk to
23 you in
September of '91, he told you they were spending the
24 night, in that
very first number one meeting you had when
25 Father Kos'
problem was called to your a deposition.
7602
01 A. Okay, I
wasn't aware. His emphasis was
02 that the kids
were spending -- were hanging around the
03 rectory.
04 Q. Well, you
made these notes. That
05 (indicating) is
your handwriting, isn't it?
06 A. That's
correct.
07 Q. And you made
these notes on your
08 recollection of
what Father Williams told you. And you
09 remember having
a meeting in 1991. Late September or early
10 October Father
Williams expresses his concern that a group
11 of boys are
always hanging around the rectory. And he said
12 -- you said,
you wrote, "even spending the night."
13 The reason I
wanted to ask you about that --
14 that is what
you wrote, isn't it --
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. -- Bishop?
17 The reason I
wanted to ask you about that,
18 I wanted to get
straight at the very start here that from
19 the very first
time you heard anybody say anything to you
20 that there is a
Rudy Kos boy problem, you were informed
21 that that boy
problem included boys spending the night in
22 the rectory.
23 A. That's what
he said to me.
24 Q. And not only
did you learn that from Father
25 Williams in
September of 1991, but you also, right after
7603
01 that, had a
meeting with Monsignor Rehkemper, didn't you?
02 A. That is
correct.
03 Q. And in that
meeting with Monsignor
04 Rehkemper, he
briefed you a little bit on this issue,
05 didn't he?
06 A. He did.
07 Q. And he told
you that boys spending the night
08 in the rectory
had been a continuing problem.
09 A. Concerns
were raised in the past, correct.
10 Q. So, Bishop,
even though this outgoing
11 administration
had not briefed you fully on this when you
12 took over in --
what was is it, July of 1990 --
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. -- when you
came here, you certainly had the
15 issue in your
hands in the fall of 1991.
16 A. That's
correct.
17 Q. And at that
time it's my understanding you
18 did not say to
Monsignor Rehkemper, "In view of all of
19 this, bring me
the file. I want to look at the entire
20 file. I want to
see everything the Diocese has on Rudy
21 Kos"?
22 A. No, I didn't
-- did not see an opportunity
23 to do that.
24 Q. Bishop, have
you given any estimate since
25 that time to
the number of sexual violations of boys that
7604
01 were committed
from September of 1991 until September of
02 1992 when Rudy
Kos was made public?
03 A. No.
04 Q. Bishop, can
you hear me okay?
05 A. Yes, I'm
doing okay.
06 Q. So after
Father Williams came to you in
07 September of
1991, it's my understanding you had a little
08 sit-down with
Father Kos.
09 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. In other
words, you called him in for a
11 meeting.
12 A. That's
right.
13 Q. And you told
him that he should stop having
14 boys spend the
night.
15 A. I told him
what Father Williams had told me.
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. And he
verified and said, yes, that was
18 true. So,
therefore, I gave him a simple, strong
19 directive, no
more, absolutely no more.
20 Q. Absolutely
don't do it again --
21 A. That's
right.
22 Q. -- no more
boys overnight.
23 A. Or at the
rectory.
24 Q. You even
went a little further and said,
25 "Don't even
have boys in the rectory".
7605
01 A. At the
rectory, that's right.
02 Q. Daytime or
any time.
03 And I asked
you, when you told us that in
04 your
deposition, if you were not suspicious at that time
05 that he might
be a threat, a sexual threat to these young
06 men, young
boys. And do you remember what he told me?
07 A. No, I don't.
08 Q. You said,
"No suspicion at that time."
09 And do you
remember I -- I asked you then if
10 you asked Rudy
Kos if he had been in any way conducting
11 himself in an
inappropriate sexual way with these boys.
12 Do you remember
me asking you that?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. And what did
you tell me?
15 A. I said "No,
I did not feel it opportune to
16 do that".
17 Q. And those of
us around the table there, at
18 least for
myself, were puzzled. Do you remember I had kind
19 of puzzled look
on my face?
20 A. No, I don't
remember.
21 Q. Bishop, you
said you didn't feel that there
22 was any need to
do that at that time. Was that not because
23 you really had
never been briefed on the issue, you didn't
24 have all of the
information that had gone before?
25 A. Oh, I was
briefly very much on the issue of
7606
01 pedophilia and
the awareness of pedophilia.
02 Q. But I'm
asking -- I'm asking you, Bishop, if
03 you had been
briefed on what had happened here in this
04 Diocese with
Father Kos?
05 A. No, I was
not believed on -- on that
06 particular
issue.
07 Q. Let me ask
you: If you had had this
08 information
made available to you for -- it should be on
09 are monitor.
Can you see it there, Bishop?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. For example,
in the file of Rudy Kos here at
12 this Diocese
are written the words by Father Duesman when
13 he investigated
his annulment, which he said, "Something is
14 fishy.
Petitioner should level with us."
15 Skipping the
next item, where his ex-wife
16 said in her
deposition that he was gay and he has problems
17 with boys,
those words didn't get in the file, but that is
18 what she
testified she told Duesman. So skip that for just
19 a moment. But
in the file would you have scene where
20 Rector Hughes,
when he applied for admission to the
21 seminary, said,
"There is some instability here. I'm
22 rejecting him
this year and maybe next year maybe he should
23 never get in."
24 And then in
1981, it is probably not
25 reflected in
the file, was the reported sexual advance on a
7607
01 student.
Disregard that for just a moment.
02 And then we
come up from '81 to '85 if you
03 -- in the file
would have been reflected letters from
04 Clayton and
others that would have indicated that as far
05 back as '81 and
into '85 the Chancellor and Monsignor Kamel
06 knew that Kos
had boys overnight in his room at All Saints.
07 And then
starting in December of '85 the
08 alerts would
have been more specific. You would have seen
09 in the file,
Bishop, that Clayton -- Father Clayton had met
10 with Bishop
Tschoepe and Sister Maureen, and the results of
11 that decision
about Father Kos was, "Be alert to sexual
12 misconduct by
Kos."
13 And then you
would have seen in the file,
14 wouldn't you,
in January of 1986, that Monsignor Rehkemper
15 suspects Kos is
either homosexual or child abuser, said "We
16 don't have hard
evidence, but we suspect it", and noted
17 that boys were
spending the night overnight, staying
18 overnight.
19 And then in
1988, '86, still, 1986 Father
20 Clayton again
warned the Diocese, Rehkemper, "Kos is a
21 danger" -- "is
a danger to the church at large and to
22 St. Luke's",
sees him that way. And then in May of 1988
23 Father Clayton
sends a second set of warnings and logs to
24 the Diocese.
25 All of that you
would have seen in the file,
7608
01 Bishop. And you
would have also seen --
02 MR. MATHIS:
Your Honor, to that extent, I object
03 to the
characterization of these. These are Mr. Turley's
04
characterization of those, and those may or may not be
05 consistent with
what the witness has actually said when
06 they were
explaining each of those matters --
07 THE COURT:
Okay. So I'm unclear --
08 MR. MATHIS: --
there has been lengthy testimony
09 with respect to
these. This little blips that he puts up
10 there may or
may not be right what the evidence is.
11 THE COURT: So
I'm unclear as to your evidentiary
12 objection.
13 MR. MATHIS:
Well, to extent it is tried to be
14 made part of
the question, and I'm still waiting on a
15 question as
part of all of this, it is improper
16
characterization of prior evidence.
17 THE COURT:
Okay.
18 Response.
19 MR. TURLEY:
Your Honor, we've been all through
20 this, each of
the witnesses over whom -- who helped us
21 prepare these
notes that summarize their testimony on those
22 points, said
that is a fair summary of what I have said.
23 THE COURT:
Okay, the objection is overruled.
24 Q. (BY MR.
TURLEY) Continuing, Bishop, with
25 us, that if you
had looked in the file and Father Clayton's
7609
01 report, would
you have seen the words that one of the
02 parishioners
reports there is an ugly rumor that Kos likes
03 little boys.
And in the file you would have seen,
04 advancing to
June of 1986, that the Diocese -- Diocese's
05 office learned
that Father Kos had been shaken by a child
06 abuse seminar
that he attended in 1986.
07 You also would
have see in that same memo,
08 although it is
not reflected on the red flag chart here,
09 that
twenty-four hours later he had a ten or eleven year
10 old boy spend
the night with him. You would have seen in
11 the file,
Bishop, that in August of 1986 Father Clayton is
12 saying to the
Bishop, about the overnights, "Grave concern
13 for all
concerned. Instincts say to act", and that in
14 August of 1986
Rehkemper again warns, "Kos of overnight
15 guests,
imprudent. Can jeopardize the Diocese". And
16 would you have
seen, also, if -- if it was in the file, it
17 is not in the
file now, but if it had been in the file at
18 that time, you
would have seen in -- in June of 1989 that
19 Mr. and Mrs.
Allen from Ennis informed the Dallas that for
20 several months
boys had have been spending the nights at
21 the rectory.
All of those things you would have found in
22 file.
23 Now, Bishop, my
question is: If you had
24 pulled out the
file and looked at it, I submit to you -- I
25 know you
haven't been here for all of the evidence that has
7610
01 been offered in
this case, but I submit to you that every
02 one of these
things have been referenced, in one way or the
03 another, in the
Diocese's file. I is my understanding
04 that you did
not ask Rudy Kos, in 1990, if he was sexually
05 abusing boys,
because you had never seen this material; is
06 that correct?
07 A. That is
correct.
08 Q. And when I
took your deposition, even, in
09 1994, two years
after Rudy Kos has been exposed, a year
10 after the
lawsuit has been filed, more than a year after
11 the lawsuit has
been filed, you still had not read --
12 opened the file
and read this material.
13
A. That is correct.
14 Q. In the 1990
meeting that you had with Father
15 Kos after you
met -- when you met with him after Father
16 Williams --
17 A. 1991.
18 Q. Yes, '91.
Thank you, sir.
19 In the
September/October 1991 meeting
20 Father Kos
admitted to you, did he not, that he knew of the
21 policy that he
was not supposed to have boys in the rectory
22 overnight; he
admitted that, didn't he?
23 A. I'm not sure
of that.
24 Q. Okay. And he
admitted also that -- that he
25 had been
violating that policy.
7611
01 A. I'm not sure
that he admitted it to me. I
02 asked Monsignor
Rehkemper and he informed me of the policy.
03 And I used that
information, then, in my talk to Kos.
04 Q. When you
gave him that warning, though, you
05 were aware that
he had already been previously warned.
06 A. No, I was
not.
07 Q. And you
don't recall telling me in your
08 deposition that
Father -- that Father Kos admitted that he
09 knew of the
policy against overnight boys and that he had
10 -- he knew that
he had been violated that policy.
11 A. I don't
remember that.
12 Q. Well, let's
look at line 13, page 66. I
13 think it's in
here, Father -- Bishop.
14 You answered:
15 "Q. Well, I
verify that Father Williams --
16 what Father
Williams said".
17 This is in your
meeting with Father Kos.
18 "I wanted to
have that verified. I wanted
19 to know myself.
And he said, yes, the boys were hanging
20 out,
occasionally spending the night. And I reminded him a
21 policy was
in-place and asked him if he knew of the policy.
22 yes, he knew of
it. He wasn't observing it."
23 So in 1991, in
September, the very first
24 time you were
confronted with this issue, you knew at the
25 get-go that
Father Kos had a long-standing problem of
7612
01 having boys in
the rectory.
02 A. I did not
know that at the time --
03 Q. Monsignor
Rehkemper --
04 A. -- when he
came to see me.
05 Q. -- Monsignor
Rehkemper didn't tell you that
06 this had been
an ongoing problem?
07 A. After I saw
Father Kos, not before.
08 Q. Within a few
days --
09 A. Okay.
10 Q. -- you knew
that this had been a
11 long-standing
problem, you knew that Rudy Kos knew he was
12 violating the
policy --
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. -- you knew
that the issue was continuing.
15 So you gave him
another warning, if I understand correctly.
16 A. A very
strong warning.
17 Q. And you told
him if he continued to violate
18 the policy,
something might be done.
19 A. No.
20 Q. You gave him
a strong warning indicating
21 that you would
not tolerate any violation of the policy.
22 A. That's
right. He would cease and desist
23 having the
youth at the rectory.
24 Q. You didn't
put anything to him in writing.
25 A. No, I did
not. I spoke to him directly.
7613
01 Q. And I'm
correct, am I not, Bishop, that
02 during this
entire ten years that the Dallas Diocese was
03 dealing with
Rudy Kos' continuing problem of violating the
04 policy, of boys
overnight, not one time, not one time did
05 the Diocese
ever put in writing to him, "You're violating
06 the policy.
Stop it now"?
07 A. I'm not
aware of that.
08 Q. Do you agree
me, Father, that -- Bishop,
09 that a minimum
-- at a minimum, prudent and careful action
10 at that time
would have dictated that the administrator in
11 charge of this
institution at least open this suspect's
12 file to see
what is in it?
13 A. No, because
I did not have that background
14 information.
The information I had was there was a policy
15 of anyone
staying at the rectory.
16 Q. I guess that
until you open the file, you're
17 not likely to
ever get that background --
18 A. That's
correct.
19 Q. --
information, are you?
20 A. But there
was no reason for me to look in
21 the file.
22 Q. Even when
Monsignor Rehkemper said to you --
23 even when
Monsignor Rehkemper said to you, "This has been
24 an ongoing
problem".
25 A. He said
there was a policy against this and
7614
01 there were
concerns raised in the past.
02 Q. All right.
Still didn't open the file?
03 A. That's
correct.
04 Q. Now, come
March of 1992, Father Williams
05 contacts you
again. He reports the boys are back; do you
06 remember that?
07 A. He didn't
say the boys were back, he said he
08 is seeing the
boys in their homes. But he said, "There
09 were some back
last week --
10 Q. Well --
11 A. And that
raised my eyebrow, because I said,
12 "I have
instructed him firmly not to have these boys there
13 again. Is it
true that some of them were back?"
14 Q. So he says,
"The boys -- some of the boys
15 are back, last
week, whenever", so you called Father Kos in
16 again.
17 A. Immediately.
18 Q. And you say
to him, "Stop that". And you
19 said --
20 A. No, I
didn't. I asked him whether it was
21 true.
22 Q. And you also
said to him, "Stop that. I
23 forbid it from
happening again".
24 A. I'm not sure
if I used that language, but I
25 did ask him at
that time, when he violated my directive, I
7615
01 asked him at
the time, "Is there something sexual going on
02 here?", and he
denied it. I think I used the word
03 pedophilia, and
he denied it.
04 But then I
said, "Okay, you disobeyed me.
05 I'm going to
send you for a second opinion to St. Luke's
06 Institute".
07 Q. And do you
know how many warnings that made,
08 in total, that
Rudy Kos had been given by the Dallas
09 Diocese and its
officers, managers, since this matter came
10 up? By March of
1992, do you know, Bishop, how many times
11 he has been
warned?
12 A. This wasn't
a warning. This was action. He
13 was going to
St. Luke's Institute.
14 Q. Well, you
said -- you also said, "Stop doing
15 that. I forbid
to it happen again".
16 A. Well, I
don't know if I used those worlds.
17 Q. Those are
the words you said you used, on
18 page 71 of your
deposition, Bishop.
19 A. Okay. I
accept that.
20 Q. If you went
back and looked at the file,
21 would you agree
with me that we would find that
22 Father Clayton,
when he was Rudy Kos' pastor and Rudy was
23 the assistant
out at St. Luke's, had warned him at least
24 twice, that
Monsignor Rehkemper warned him in January of
25 1986 and again
a couple of years later when he called him
7616
01 in and warned
him, instead of giving him a written letter,
02 one time the
Personnel Board said, "Stop showing favoritism
03 to little
boys", before they transferred him to Ennis, you
04 yourself have
warned him twice now already, you're going to
05 warn him a
third time, subsequently, we know, and I think
06 the record will
show that Bishop Tschoepe warned him once
07 or twice.
08 All totaled, do
you realize that March of
09 1992 Father Kos
has been warned, "Stop the overnight
10 visits", eight
or ten times; do you realize that?
11 A. I'm not
aware of that.
12 Q. And then
July did come, of 1992. You have
13 him back in
your office, and we'll come back to how he got
14 there in July
of 1992, but you have him back in there again
15 for your third
meeting with him, and isn't it true that you
16 tell him, one
more time, "Stop.
Don't have the little boys
17 overnight"?
18 A. That's
correct, and "I'll move you if you
19 do".
(The testimony in
the Rudy Kos Liability trial continues at
page
7616, line 20 of Bishop Grahmann's Testimony as recorded in the trial
transcript.)
Your opinion is valuable. Please
email
opinions@wearethechurch.org.
Grace in truth,
not in secrecy.
Return to www.WeAreTheChurch.org Home Page
Grace in truth,
not in
secrecy |
