0001
01 NO. 93-05258-G
01
02 JOHN DOE I, et al. ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
02 )
03 )
03 VERSUS ) OF DALLAS COUNTY
04 )
04 REVEREND RUDOLPH KOS, et al. ) 134TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
05
05 REPORTER'S RECORD
06 VOLUME____OF _____
06
07 APPEARANCES:
07
08
08 MR. WINDLE TURLEY
09 Attorney at Law
09 1000 University Tower
10 6440 N. Central Expressway
10 Dallas, Texas 75205
11
11 MS. SYLVIA M. DEMAREST
12 Attorney at Law
12 DEMAREST, SMITH, PRESLAR, JONES & GIUNTA
13 Cedar Maple Plaza
13 2305 Cedar Springs Road, Suite 350
14 Dallas, Texas 75201
14
15 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS
15
16 MR. RANDAL MATHIS
16 MR. DENNIS ROOSSIEN
17 Attorneys at Law
17 MUNSCH, HARDT, KOPF, HARR & DINAN, P. C.
18 4000 Fountain Place
18 1455 Ross Avenue
19 Dallas, Texas 75202-2711
19 FOR THE DIOCESE OF
20 DALLAS
20
21
21
22
23 On the 28th day of May, 1997, the
24 above-entitled and numbered cause came on for a hearing
25 before the Honorable Anne Ashby, Judge presiding of the
0002
01 134th Judicial District Court of Dallas County, Texas, and
02 a jury, at which time the following proceedings were had:
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0003
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01 W-I-T-N-E-S-S-E-S:
02
02 PAGE
03
03 (John Doe #4)
04
04 Direct Examination (Continued)
05 By Mr. Turley...........2886
05 Cross Examination
06 By Mr. Mathis...........2940
06 Redirect Examination
07 By Mr. Turley...........2991
07 Recross Examination
08 By Mr. Mathis...........2996
08 Redirect Examination
09 By Mr. Turley...........3000
09
10 SISTER CAROLEEN HENSGEN
10
11 Direct Examination
11 By Ms. Demarest.........3002
12 Cross Examination
12 By Mr. Mathis...........3020
13 Redirect Examination
13 By Ms. Demarest.........3022
14 Cross Examination
14 By Mr. Turley...........3023
15 Recross Examination
15 By Mr. Mathis...........3024
16 Recross Examination
16 By Mr. Turley...........3025
17
17 SHAUN MARIE UNDERHILL
18
18 Direct Examination
19 By Ms. Demarest..........3028
19 Cross Examination
20 By Mr. Mathis............3039
20
21 REVEREND RAYMOND JOHN SCOTT
21
22 Direct Examination
22 By Ms. Demarest..........3040
23 Cross Examination
23 By Mr. Mathis............3051
24
24 REVEREND ROBERT WILLIAMS, JR.
25
25 Direct Examination
0004
01 By Ms. Demarest..........3053
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0005
01
01 E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S:
02
02 Marked Offered Admitted
03
03 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 88
04 Current picture of
04 (John Doe #4)..............2887 2887
05 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 89
05 Picture of gifts from
06 Rudy Kos to (John Doe #4)..2888 2888
06 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 90
07 Picture of (John Doe #4)
07 with Rudy Kos..............2889 2889
08 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 91
08 Picture of (John Doe #4)
09 was altar
09 server.....................2894 2894
10 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 92
10 Promissory note from
11 (John Doe #4) to Rudy
11 Kos........................2939 2940
12 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 93
12 Picture of plaintiffs with
13 Rudy Kos at Disney World...2939 2940
13 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 94
14 Picture of (John Doe #4)...2939 2940
14 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 95
15 Sketch of St. Luke's.......2939 2940
15 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 96
16 Picture of (John Doe #4)'s
16 children...................2940 2940
17 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 97
17 Father Brown's assignment
18 schedule................... 3027
18 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 98
19 Letter and summary from
19 Father Williams to
20 Bishop Grahmann...........3072 3072
20 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 99
21 Sketch of St. John's......3081 3081
21 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 100
22 Sketch of St. John's......3143 3143
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01
02 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S:
03
04 May 28, 1997
05
06 THE COURT: You may proceed.
07 MR. TURLEY: Thank you thank you, Your Honor.
08 THE COURT: You're welcome.
09 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
10 BY MR. TURLEY:
11 Q. Good morning, Mr. (John Doe #4).
12 A. Good morning.
13 Q. How are you feeling today, (John Doe #4)?
14 A. Nervous, kind of scared.
15 Q. Why are you scared today?
16 A. Because I don't --
17 THE COURT: Just take a second.
18 THE WITNESS: I don't want anyone to be ashamed of
19 me or think bad of me or feel I could have prevented this,
20 because I couldn't.
21 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) (John Doe #4), let me come back, in
22 a moment, and talk to you about how you feel, if that's all
23 right.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Let's wait a little bit and we'll visit
2887
01 about some other matters first.
02 THE COURT: Just a second, Mr. Turley. Let him
03 sit just a second.
04 (Whereupon there was a pause in the proceedings,
05 and thereafter the following was had:)
06
07 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) Let me ask you an easy
08 question.
09 Is that your picture?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. It's not very good picture we've made of
12 you.
13 A. Not good at all.
14 Q. I know. I'm sorry. That was just made a
15 couple of weeks ago?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. I think before we started this trial.
18 MR. TURLEY: We'll offer that as Exhibit No. 88
19 MR. MATHIS: No objection
20 THE COURT: Admitted.
21 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) Let me ask you about some
22 other pictures, if I could, (John Doe #4). How old is that young
23 guy?
24 A. Probably about thirteen, fourteen.
25 Q. About thirteen or fourteen?
2888
01 A. Yes.
02 Q. This was about your age and appearance when
03 you first had contact with Rudy Kos?
04 A. Yes, because Father Rudy bought -- Father
05 Rudy bought me the necklace that I'm wearing in that
06 picture.
07 Q. That necklace right there (indicating)?
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. Did Father Rudy buy you a lot of jewelry?
10 A. He bought me a necklace and a cross for a
11 necklace and a couple of gold rings with diamonds.
12 Q. Bought you cologne?
13 A. Cologne, clothes, socks and shoes.
14 Q. You were about thirteen, you said be
15 thirteen when this picture was made?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You would have been, what, the seventh or
18 eighth grade?
19 A. Yes.
20 MR. TURLEY: That will be Plaintiff's No.
21 89, and we offer it.
22 MR. MATHIS: No objection.
23 THE COURT: Admitted.
24 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) Look at this one. Do you
25 remember when this picture was made, (John Doe #4)?
2889
01 A. It was my eighth grade year when I was being
02 confirmed.
03 Q. This is when you were confirmed in your
04 school?
05 A. Yes.
06 Q. That is Father Kos -- Father Rudy, you call
07 him, there with you?
08 A. Yes.
09 MR. TURLEY: We offer Plaintiff's Exhibit No.
10 90.
11 MR. MATHIS: No objection.
12 THE COURT: Admitted.
13 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) And then yesterday we
14 looked at this picture. And this is also in your eighth
15 year, I think you told us yesterday?
16 A. Yes. It's the first class in the new church
17 at St. Luke's.
18 Q. Okay. You told us yesterday, (John Doe #4), that
19 before Rudy Kos came into your life you had many friends?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. Got along well with your classmates and
22 enjoyed life as a youngster?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. After Rudy Kos came into your life, what
25 happened to your circle of friends?
2890
01 A. They kind of whithered away.
02 Q. At the time you are finally trying to finish
03 up high school and get that diploma from the Mega Center,
04 did you have many friends?
05 A. Just, like, the people I worked with and my
06 wife.
07 Q. Didn't have any other friends?
08 A. (witness shakes head)
09 Q. When you were back at school at St. Luke's,
10 did you tell us yesterday about sometimes going to visit
11 Father Rudy during your lunch break?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And what about at recesses?
14 A. During the seventh and eighth grade year, we
15 had lunch and recess and Father Rudy would ask me to come
16 over and have lunch with him. Sometimes he would drive me
17 to McDonald's or Wendy's and have lunch and sometimes we
18 would just sit in his office and play games and do
19 whatever.
20 Q. On those occasions when you were in seventh
21 grade, for example, and Father Rudy would call and ask you
22 to come over and have lunch with --
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. -- him and you stayed in the rectory for
25 lunch, did he ever, on those occasions during the lunch
2891
01 break from your school, use your feet to masturbate himself
02 with?
03 A. Yes, he did.
04 Q. Now tell us about something that is very
05 important in every young man's life, in most young men's
06 lives, it was in mine, the first time you had your own
07 vehicle.
08 The time finally came, didn't it, when you
09 got to buy a car or a vehicle?
10 A. I --
11 Q. Tell us about that.
12 A. I was sixteen or seventeen. And I worked
13 with my mom and dad in the lawn service. And I had saved
14 up $1,300 I had in my savings account. And I was wanting
15 a truck real bad. So I took driver's education. And I
16 found a truck from my uncle in Colorado. It had a -- a
17 camper and everything on it. And that truck was $15,000.
18 And so my parents lent me $200. And later, they sold the
19 camper part of that $200. And they drove to Colorado and
20 got the truck for me. And I had -- I paid my parents for
21 the gas and everything for going and getting it.
22 Q. And you kept that truck for awhile, didn't
23 you?
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. And did -- and then, like what happens to a
2892
01 lot of old cars, old trucks, it broke down?
02 A. Yes. I blew the motor in it one day.
03 Q. Young people have a way of doing that.
04 A. Yes, driving it.
05 Q. I have been there, with my first car.
06 So now you're without transportation again.
07 A. I have no vehicle.
08 Q. Having been introduced to it's convenience,
09 what do you do then for transportation?
10 A. I was really confused. I had -- couldn't
11 do anything. My mom and dad were taking me to school, and
12 I had this truck with a blown motor and --
13 Q. Your parents -- did your parents step
14 forward and say, "No problem. We'll fix it"?
15 A. No. My parents wouldn't fix it.
16 Q. Why not?
17 A. They said I should have drove it right. It
18 should have lasted longer than it did. It sat in front of
19 the house. Then --
20 Q. Where did -- do you remember what year that
21 was or -- let me ask it like this: Where was Rudy Kos
22 assigned at that time?
23 A. He was at St. John's in Ennis.
24 Q. He had already been moved to St. John's in
25 Ennis?
2893
01 A. Yes.
02 Q. Before the truck broke, had you used it to
03 go down there to St. John's when Rudy would call for you?
04 A. It didn't seem like it was reliable enough.
05 I think I went down there once or twice.
06 Q. Tell us, then, how got your truck fixed.
07 A. Father Rudy called me up one day. And I
08 told him I blew the motor in my truck and I was without
09 transportation. And he said that he knows Ed real well at
10 Ed's Garage there in Ennis, and that he would have my truck
11 fixed for me. So he had Ed come and tow it to Ennis, and
12 had it for about a week or two, put a brand new motor in
13 it --
14 Q. How much --
15 A. -- had it all fixed for me.
16 Q. How much did that cost?
17 A. It didn't cost me anything. I think it cost
18 like $1,500 to get done.
19 Q. It didn't cost you anything, but did you
20 have to sign any papers for it?
21 A. Yes. I had to sign a card saying I would
22 pay Rudy monthly.
23 Q. So Rudy lent you money to get your truck
24 fixed?
25 A. Yes.
2894
01 Q. And that would be in -- a copy of that, I
02 guess, would be Plaintiff's Exhibit 91 -- 92, that you
03 think -- this a copy of the promissory note?
04 A. I think that is it, yes.
05 Q. And in this note Rudy has you indebted to
06 him at a rate of $100 a month, starting the first day of
07 December and continuing for fifteen months; is that right?
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. Later on did Rudy ever hold this over your
10 head?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How did he hold this over your head?
13 A. I wasn't going down to Ennis to see him, so
14 he called my mom and dad and told them that I was too
15 involved in my social life, that I needed to come see him
16 more. So he came one night and he repossessed my truck.
17 Q. Rudy came and got your truck because you
18 wouldn't drive it down to Ennis to see him?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Then what happened about the truck?
21 A. I was very angry. And then a couple of
22 weeks later he -- he told me I could have the truck back if
23 I would agree to go down there once every couple of weeks
24 and do work around St. John's.
25 Q. Was that really why he wanted you to come
2895
01 down there?
02 A. No.
03 Q. Did you really do any work around
04 St. John's?
05 A. No.
06 Q. When you went down there on those occasions,
07 what happened?
08 A. He molested me.
09 Q. You've told us the ways that Rudy Kos showed
10 his affection for you, or you thought he was showing
11 affection for you. That was your impression, --
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. -- that he bought you things, took you
14 places, did things for you, gave you beer, told you he
15 loved you, told you you were special, number one in his
16 life, these other things you talked to us about.
17 At the same time, (John Doe #4), did he ever put you
18 down --
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. -- while this saying, "I love you" is going
21 on, was he telling you something different?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How -- how -- tell us about that.
24 A. He told me I was overweight. He told me I
25 was fat, that I needed to lose weight. He told me that
2896
01 because I lived in Irving and not the -- he told me because
02 I lived in Irving and not in north Dallas, I wasn't as good
03 as north Dallas people were. Kind of like I was white
04 trash. He always insulted my father, told me how bad my
05 father was.
06 Q. Did he tell you how to eat?
07 A. Yes. He told me I needed to watch my
08 eating.
09 Q. Did he tell you how to eat? Did he
10 criticize the way you -- your manners?
11 A. He told me I ate too fast, that I should eat
12 a lot slower and eat better food.
13 Q. On these occasions when he was criticizing
14 your father and putting you down, how did you feel about
15 hearing a priest say things bad about your dad?
16 A. At the time when he was saying bad thing
17 about my dad, I kind of was at that age I kind of went
18 along with him.
19 Q. Then later on did that start to create some
20 conflicts in your feelings?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. (John Doe #4), did Father Kos ever have you sleep
23 with him?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. When you two would sleep in the same bed
2897
01 together, what did he have you wear?
02 A. Usually a t-shirt and some, like, hospital
03 doctor pants.
04 Q. Like hospital scrubs?
05 A. Yes.
06 Q. The green --
07 A. They were green with, like, the hospital
08 name on them.
09 Q. And on those occasions did he sexually --
10 become sexually abusive with you?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. You told us yesterday that there had been
13 occasions where Father Kos had performed oral sex on you,
14 particularly on those occasions when you had had a lot to
15 drink and he had given you pink pills with the V on them?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Do you now know what those pills were, by
18 the way?
19 A. Valium.
20 Q. After you had had the beer and the Valium
21 and he had performed oral sex, on those occasions when you
22 had not passed out, was there something that Rudy did after
23 that was all over?
24 A. After he had oral sex with me, he would -- I
25 don't know how to say this. He would -- I would ejaculate,
2898
01 I guess, in his mouth, and he would walk over to -- he had
02 a shelf in his room and he had a Maalox bottle. And he
03 would just opened his mouth and just squirt the Maalox in
04 his mouth.
05 Q. How many times did Father Kos have you sleep
06 with him; do you have any idea?
07 A. I don't recall.
08 Q. Okay.
09 Now we saw earlier yesterday, when we looked
10 at the yearbook of -- this yearbook when you and your
11 classmates are in the eighth grade?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And we see on the front of it it says 1987?
14 A. Yes.
15 A. So we know in '87 you were in the eighth
16 grade.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And you were in the seventh grade, then, in
19 '86?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And Father Kos had first come to the church
22 in Ennis the year before, in 1985?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. These other eighth grade youngsters that you
25 identified -- identified their photos yesterday, but didn't
2899
01 name their there names?
02 A. Yes.
03 Q. You could name their names, if you needed
04 to?
05 A. Yes.
06 Q. Are any of those -- those young men in this
07 eighth grade photograph plaintiffs in this lawsuit?
08 A. No, they're not.
09 Q. You're the only one in this class?
10 A. I'm the only one.
11 Q. Since, (John Doe #4) -- (John Doe #4), in the last month,
12 since about the time this lawsuit started getting
13 started -- I mean, this trial, not the lawsuit, but the
14 trial, have any other young men come forward to you and
15 said, for the first time, to anybody, as far as you know,
16 that they were sexually abused by Father Rudy?
17 A. Yes.
18 MR. MATHIS: Objection, hearsay.
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) (John Doe #4), you told us
21 yesterday that you had a -- you thought you had a close --
22 fairly close relationship with Father Clayton before Father
23 Rudy came to the church.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And you said you went to confession with
2900
01 Clayton from the time you were in second grade until the
02 time you were in seventh grade, was it?
03 A. Yes.
04 Q. And that you formed -- that you felt -- did
05 I ask you: Did you feel trust --
06 A. I felt trusted.
07 Q. -- and comfortable with Father Clayton as
08 your pastor, as your priest?
09 A. (witness nods).
10 Q. If Father Clayton had come to you -- let's
11 do it like this --
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. Let me be Father Clayton, for a moment, all
14 right? And I want to ask you some questions. You
15 pretend I'm Father Clayton, and you answer the questions as
16 you would have answered if Father Clayton would have come
17 to you and talked to you when you were in the seventh,
18 eighth grade.
19 MR. MATHIS: Objection, Your Honor. This calls
20 for speculation. I think what he is -- at least what I
21 think he is going to do, calls for speculation.
22 THE COURT: Inadequate predicate at this point,
23 but go ahead.
24 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) If Father Clayton had come
25 to you in the seventh, eighth grade and talked to you about
2901
01 Rudy Kos, would you have talked to Father Clayton?
02 MR. MATHIS: Objection, calls for speculation.
03 THE COURT: That is overruled.
04 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) Would you have talked to
05 Father Clayton?
06 A. Yes.
07 MR. MATHIS: Can I have a running objection to
08 this?
09 THE COURT: Yes.
10 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) Would you have told him
11 the truth?
12 A. I would have told him what was happening at
13 the time.
14 Q. I'm Father Clayton. I want to ask you this
15 question.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. (John Doe #4), good to see you today.
18 A. How are you doing?
19 Q. You out of school for lunch with Father
20 Rudy?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You going to lunch upstairs or downstairs
23 here?
24 A. Upstairs.
25 Q. How are you doing in school, (John Doe #4)?
2902
01 A. I'm getting by.
02 Q. You seem to get along well with Father Rudy.
03 A. Yes.
04 Q. And the other boys seem to get along well
05 with him.
06 A. yes.
07 Q. You all like him?
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. Have a lot of fun with him?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. I wish I got along so well with him.
12 (John Doe #4), you all -- what is it about Father Rudy
13 that makes you like him so?
14 A. He spends a lot of time with us. He has got
15 a lot of neat things and he acts like he really cares about
16 us, a really neat guy to hang out with.
17 Q. You all seem to be close. Does he ever
18 wrestle with you and give you a hug?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. I notice he gives you a hug sometimes.
21 A. Yes, all of the time.
22 Q. Does it feel good?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. How does he do that? How -- how does --
25 how -- tell me how he does that. Maybe I need to learn it
2903
01 myself.
02 A. He just like puts -- sometimes puts us in a
03 head lock, sometimes squeezes real tight and pops our backs
04 and things.
05 Q. I heard he pops your toes.
06 A. Yes.
07 Q. How does he pop your toes, (John Doe #4)?
08 A. He takes my shoes off and just pops my toes
09 and makes them kind of crackle. Kind of neat.
10 Q. Does he massage your feet, rub your feet?
11 A. Yes, he massages my feet.
12 Q. How does he do that?
13 A. Takes my foot (sic) off, puts it in his lap
14 massages my feet.
15 Q. When he has your foot in his lap, does he
16 move it or anything?
17 A. Seems like he moves it up and down.
18 Q. (John Doe #4), you have a nice day.
19 A. Thanks.
20 Q. If Father Clayton had asked you those
21 questions, (John Doe #4), would you have answered him just like you
22 and me --
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And were there other young men at the church
25 that would have, you believe, answered him in the same way?
2904
01 A. Yes.
02 MR. MATHIS: Objection, calls for speculation.
03 THE COURT: Overruled.
04 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) Did Father Clayton ever
05 tell you, "Stay out of the rectory. You shouldn't be here
06 with Father Kos day or night"?
07 A. No.
08 Q. Any questions but that Father Clayton knew
09 you were there?
10 A. No.
11 Q. You told us yesterday about how you would go
12 there and you would press a button and the secretary would
13 tell Father Kos, tell him you were there and he would tell
14 her where to send you?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And that happened, you said --
17 A. Every time, just about, during the day when
18 I went over there.
19 Q. Almost every day, four days a week?
20 Did Father Rudy ever sneak you into the
21 rectory?
22 A. No.
23 Q. You talked in your deposition about -- that
24 he would bring you in quietly, you and some of the other
25 boys, sometimes, at night?
2905
01 A. Yes.
02 Q. Tell us about that.
03 A. Well, we would get in, like, usually it
04 seemed like maybe it was 10:00 sometimes. And he would
05 just tell us to be real quiet, not to make a lot of noise.
06 Q. Why did he say that to you?
07 A. Because -- so we wouldn't disturb anybody.
08 Q. Didn't want you bothering Father Clayton?
09 A. That's right.
10 Q. Was it, "I'm sneaking you in under the cover
11 of darkness window" kind of stuff?
12 A. Just more or less tell us to be quiet, not
13 to make a lot of noise.
14 Q. (John Doe #4), did your visits to the rectory, both
15 day and night, ever stop, ever stop --
16 A. No.
17 Q. -- while Kos was at St. Luke's?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Did they even slow down much?
20 A. No.
21 Q. What about the visits of the other boys that
22 you observed in the day and at night? Did they ever stop
23 while Father Kos was at St. Luke's?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did you observe whether they even slowed
2906
01 down very much?
02 A. I don't think they did.
03 Q. Even in 1988, the last year that Kos was
04 there, the first part of that year, the last of '87, did
05 this activity slow down or stop?
06 A. No.
07 Q. (John Doe #4), can you see this (indicating)?
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. I'm just going to look at it for a little
10 bit so -- I don't have one up on the screen. I don't have
11 it handy.
12 On this years of sexual abuse chart by
13 Father Rudy Kos --
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. -- we have you located right here
16 (indicating), and a picture that we're going to look at in
17 just a moment -- let me ask you about that, while we're on
18 the subject here.
19 I thought I had it out. Just one second.
20 (John Doe #4), we have on this activity -- or abuse --
21 sexual abuse chart. We've got you picking up here with
22 Father Kos sometime around 1985. You told us -- I think
23 that was correct.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And then we continue on out here to 1992.
2907
01 And I'm going to talk to you about how this terminated in
02 1982, in just a moment.
03 But is this correct, that from '85 to '92,
04 for seven years Father Kos sexually abused you.
05 A. Yes.
06 Q. This photograph that we have right here
07 (indicating), can you see this one?
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. Or you've seen it before.
10 Tell us about that picture.
11 A. Father Rudy took myself, (John Doe #1), and
12 (John Doe #2) to Walt Disney World Florida the summer of my
13 eighth grade year. We flew to Florida. It was for five
14 or six days. And that picture was taken in Florida, on
15 the back of a caboose.
16 Q. And this is one part of it. There are two
17 other parts of other boys and Father Rudy. You're all
18 dressed in costumes?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. That is when you were about thirteen years
21 old?
22 A. Thirteen or fourteen.
23 Q. And the one that we now have on the screen
24 is when you were just -- about maybe a year earlier?
25 A. Yes.
2908
01 Q. And that one is about a year later or two?
02 A. About a year later.
03 Q. Okay.
04 Now during these seven years, I asked to you
05 give some thought, to share with the jury, if you could,
06 approximately how many times you believe, when you were
07 awake, that Father Rudy Kos sexually abused you. Could you
08 give us some thought to that. You thought about it for me?
09 A. I would guess while he was at St. Luke's it
10 will probably about three times a week, about four hundred
11 an fifty times when he was at St. Luke's. And then it
12 will probably be one hundred times after he was at
13 St. John's.
14 Q. Total of five hundred land fifty --
15 approximately five hundred fifty events of sexual abuse?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. (John Doe #4), when -- come with me to the time
18 Father Rudy Kos was at St. John's. In your mind, things
19 had become more intense, from a sexual abuse perspective;
20 is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And you were starting to change your
23 feelings about a lot of things, I understand.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Starting in these last two years, in about
2909
01 1990 through early '92, or even in '91, can you tell us
02 whether you were able to separate your feelings of
03 attachment of Father Rudy Kos as your spiritual father and
04 priest, from your attachment to Rudy Kos as a friend who
05 showered you with attention, from your attachment to Rudy
06 Kos as kind of a substitute dad. Since you were having
07 problems, you told us yesterday, some problems with your
08 own dad, were you able to separate those feelings out and
09 understand what was happening?
10 A. No.
11 &nbs