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01 NO. 93-05258-G
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02 JOHN DOE I, et al. ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
02 )
03 )
03 VERSUS ) OF DALLAS COUNTY
04 )
04 REVEREND RUDOLPH KOS, et al. ) 134TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
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06 REPORTER'S RECORD
06 VOLUME____OF____
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08 APPEARANCES:
08
09
09 MR. WINDLE TURLEY
10 MR. BENJAMIN DU BOSE
10 Attorneys at Law
11 1000 University Tower
11 6440 N. Central Expressway
12 Dallas, Texas 75205
12
13 MS. SYLVIA M. DEMAREST
13 Attorney at Law
14 DEMAREST, SMITH, PRESLAR, JONES & GIUNTA
14 Cedar Maple Plaza
15 2305 Cedar Springs Road, Suite 350
15 Dallas, Texas 75201
16
16 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS
17
17 MR. RANDAL MATHIS
18 MR. DENNIS ROOSSIEN
18 Attorneys at Law
19 MUNSCH, HARDT, KOPF, HARR & DINAN, P. C.
19 4000 Fountain Place
20 1455 Ross Avenue
20 Dallas, Texas 75202-2711
21 FOR THE DIOCESE OF
21 DALLAS
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25 On the 20th day of June, 1997, the
0002
01 above-entitled and numbered cause came on for a hearing
02 before the Honorable Anne Ashby, Judge presiding of the
03 134th Judicial District Court of Dallas County, Texas, and
04 a jury, at which time the following proceedings were had:
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01 W-I-T-N-E-S-S-E-S:
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02 PAGE
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03 (John Doe #1)
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04 Direct Examination
05 By Mr. Turley..........6106
05 Voir Dire Examinatino
06 By Mr. Turley..........6175
06 Cross Examination
07 By Ms. Demarest........6192
07 Cross Examination
08 By Mr. Turley..........6226
08 Recross Examination
09 By Ms. Demarest........6232
09 Recross Examination
10 By Mr. Mathis..........6236
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11 (Father of John Doe #3)
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12 Direct Examination
12 By Mr. Turley..........6240
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01 E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S:
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02 (John Doe #20)ed Offered Admitted
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03 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 202
04 (John Doe #1)'s chart
04 of abuse..................6231 6231
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02 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S:
03
04 June 20, 1997
05
06 (Whereupon the jury entered the courtroom, and
06 thereafter the following was had in the presence of the
07 jury, as follows:)
07
08
09
10 THE COURT: Please call your next witness.
11 MR. TURLEY: The plaintiff calls (John Doe #1) .
12 THE COURT: Okay. State your full, legal name for
13 the record.
14 THE WITNESS: (John Doe #1)
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 You may proceed, Counsel.
17 (John Doe #1),
18 the witness, having been duly sworn and cautioned to tell
19 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,
20 testified on his oath as follows:
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. TURLEY:
23 Q. Good morning, (John Doe #1).
24 A. Good morning.
25 Q. (John Doe #1), you're -- you're the last of the
6107
01 plaintiffs in the plaintiff's families that have told their
02 story to the jury in this case. A lot of what I want to
03 talk to you about, as you know, because you've been here,
04 has been covered by some of the other young men, and so I
05 am going to try to skip over that part a little bit if you
06 will not feel, please, that we are slighting you in any
07 way.
08 A. Okay.
09 Q. (John Doe #1), how old are you today?
10 A. Twenty-three.
11 Q. Where do you live?
12 A. North Dallas.
13 Q. (John Doe #1), did a time come in 1992 when you got a
14 call from your mother, wanting you to do something?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Tell the jury about that.
17 A. She called me at about the middle of May
18 1992 and asked me to write a letter of recommendation for
19 Father Rudy. And it would have been sent to the Bishop.
20 She had explained to me that there was a
21 family down in Ennis that was feuding and that Rudy had
22 stepped in to kind of settle the disputes in the family and
23 the family didn't really care for Rudy getting involved in
24 the family. And they had complained to the Bishop and he
25 was going to go in and see the Bishop.
6108
01 And so he had called my mother and asked for
02 a referral, like recommendation -- letters of
03 recommendation.
04 Q. Was it your understanding that at that time
05 Father Kos was calling a lot of different people to get
06 those letters of recommendation?
07 A. The only person I understood he called was
08 my mother. And then, in turn, my mother called me and my
09 two older brothers.
10 Q. All right.
11 So your mother called you in 1992, the early
12 part of '92, I think it was, around May?
13 A. Yeah, like the first week, week and-a-half.
14 Q. And what did you tell her when she asked you
15 to write a letter praising Father Kos?
16 A. Well, at that time I had --
17 Q. Wait just a minute.
18 What did your tell your mother, in May of
19 1992, when she asked you to write a letter praising Father
20 Kos?
21 A. At that time I had thoughts of Rudy on my
22 mind. And when she had asked me to write that letter, I
23 told her I couldn't do that, that there was something that
24 I hadn't told her before. I broke down crying on the
25 phone. And I told her I needed to meet with her, to
6109
01 explain what had happened to me.
02 Q. Okay. You didn't tell her on the phone,
03 while you were crying, what it was you needed to talk to
04 her about?
05 A. No, I didn't.
06 Q. And then you had a meeting with your mother.
07 A. Yes, I did.
08 Q. And is that the -- the -- you told her what?
09 A. Well, I met with her a few days later, at
10 her house. It was just me and her alone. And I told her
11 that Kos had rubbed my back, and during that back rub he
12 moved his hand down into my pants and fondled my penis
13 and that he then proceeded to pull my pants down and
14 perform oral sex on me.
15 Q. At that time you didn't tell her all of the
16 other things that had gone on for eight or nine years?
17 A. No, I didn't. I was -- it was very
18 uncomfortable for me because this was the first time that I
19 had ever talked about it.
20 Q. Were there some tears?
21 A. Yes, there was.
22 Q. What did your mother do, then, after you
23 made this disclosure to her in May of 1992?
24 A. She was very shocked and surprised. And she
25 was upset. And she told me that she wanted to confront
6110
01 Rudy about what I had told her, to see what he had to say
02 about it.
03 Q. Now at that time, (John Doe #1), had you -- along
04 about that same time, did you start or had you started
05 counseling?
06 A. It was right at that time, it was like within
07 a few days after I talked to her I started seeing a
08 counselor.
09 Q. And did you disclose this same matter to
10 your counselor?
11 A. It was about the third or fourth session
12 with my counselor that we began talking about Kos what he
13 had done to me.
14 Q. And did he encourage you to do something?
15 A. He had told me, after several sessions of
16 talking about it, that he would have to report it to Child
17 Protective Services unless he knew that I would do --
18 report it, he would not be obligated to do it.
19 Q. So how did you feel about having to now
20 report this person who, you're going to tell us in a little
21 bit, I think, had become your best friend, your priest,
22 your surrogate father and your loyal confessor for several
23 years?
24 A. Right.
25 I was not prepared to do so. I felt very
6111
01 uncomfortable. I was under a lot of pressure at that
02 time.
03 Q. Did you wrestle with that decision yourself
04 for a few weeks?
05 A. Yes, I did.
06 Q. And then what did you finally do?
07 A. Well, over several sessions me and my
08 counselor talked about what I should do, whether or not I
09 should go to the church or go to the police or get an
10 attorney or what. And we decided to -- the best thing for
11 me to do would be for me to get an attorney to represent
12 me.
13 Q. And you started that process.
14 A. Yes, we did, shortly after that.
15 Q. (John Doe #1), how many -- when did -- when did the
16 sexual abuse by Father Kos start with you?
17 A. When I was at the age of nine.
18 Q. All right. In about 1983?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And how long it continue?
21 A. Up until December of 1990.
22 Q. That's what we have on your board here
23 (indicating). Can you see that?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. 1993 to 1990?
6112
01 A. Correct.
02 Q. Then we have this other time line which
03 now --
04 MR. TURLEY: I'll put this back in just one moment,
05 Your Honor, if I may.
06 THE COURT: Okay.
07 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) Now, with your addition on
08 here, (John Doe #1), up here (indicating), starting when you're
09 about age nine, 1983, running out to 1990, that completes
10 all of the young men who are plaintiffs or parents in this
11 case; does it not?
12 A. Yeah, right.
13 Q. (John Doe #1), I would like for you to tell the jury
14 a little bit about your family, if you would, the family
15 that you have now, to start with.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. You've told us your age already.
18 You're married?
19 A. Yes, I am.
20 Q. And I understand fairly recently married.
21 A. Yes. March -- March 6th of 1987 -- or 1997,
22 I'm sorry.
23 Q. Just two or three months ago.
24 A. That's correct.
25 Q. And you and your wife have had a close
6113
01 relationship for a couple of years prior to that.
02 A. About three years, yes.
03 Q. And what is your wife's name?
04 A. (John Doe #1's wife).
05 Q. Okay. And she brought to your family a
06 couple of children; did she not?
07 A. Yes, she did.
08 Q. So you're a -- suddenly a father of --
09 A. Two children.
10 Q. Two kiddos.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. What are their ages?
13 A. (daughter) who is nine
14 years old and (daughter)is now twelve.
15 Q. Let's get acquainted here a little bit here,
16 if we can.
17 Is this (indicating) your new family?
18 A. Yes, it is.
19 Q. And your wife is ( ) and these are your
20 two daughters?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And we have some other pictures of your
23 pretty daughters.
24 A. That picture was taken about a year
25 and-a-half ago. So these pictures are a little bit --
6114
01 Q. This is about a year and-a-half ago?
02 A. Yes. And these are recent school pictures.
03 Q. Which one is this (indicating)?
04 A. This is (daughter).
05 Q. (daughter)? And how old is she?
06 A. Nine.
07 Q. Okay. And her sister?
08 A. Yes, (daughter). She is twelve years old now.
09 Q. Okay.
10 How do you like being a father?
11 A. It's tough work, but I enjoy it.
12 Q. Does your wife work outside of your home,
13 (John Doe #1)?
14 A. She has had various jobs outside of the
15 home. Presently she is not working.
16 Q. Where did you meet your wife?
17 A. While I was working at Nations Bank as a
18 teller.
19 Q. She was working there also?
20 A. Yes. I was already working there. And she
21 transferred from a different branch, to the branch I was
22 working at and we met.
23 Q. And that was, what, about three years ago,
24 two?
25 A. About three and-a-half years from now.
6115
01 Q. Do you all go to church?
02 A. Do we go to church?
03 Q. Do you go to church, you and your family?
04 A. Up until about trial I had been going to
05 church. During this trial it's been difficult for me to
06 attend mass.
07 Q. I believe you told me you feel you have a
08 special obligation to teach good -- good --
09 A. Exactly, morals.
10 Q. -- morals and upbringing for your children.
11 A. Correct. I feel like it's my responsibility
12 to teach them good morals.
13 Q. (John Doe #1), you may have to come forward just a
14 little bit toward that mic. Just kind of lean forward a
15 little bit, if you could.
16 Now let's talk about the other family that
17 you have. (,John Doe #6 & John Doe #20) filled us in, as you heard the
other day,
18 about your family and where the family came in and
19 its background. And I'll not go through that again with
20 you today, (John Doe #1).
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. But tell us how you viewed your family
23 before Rudy Kos came along?
24 A. I thought that we were a pretty close
25 family. We attended mass together, went on trips together.
6116
01 Q. And then about the time Rudy Kos came along
02 there was some tension developing in the family; was there
03 not?
04 A. Yes.
05 Q. And we'll talk about that a little bit more
06 here in just a minute.
07 You have a middle brother. You're the
08 youngest?
09 A. That's right.
10 Q. And there is (John Doe #6 and John Doe #20) and you?
11 A. That's right.
12 Q. And (John Doe #20), I believe, is here today to
13 support you?
14 A. He is.
15 Q. What kind of relationship did you have with
16 your brothers before Rudy Kos came to All Saints?
17 A. I felt I was very close to my brothers.
18 Q. Did things together, supported each other?
19 A. Oh, definitely.
20 Q. What were some of your personal interests
21 back in those days, (John Doe #1)? And I guess we're talking about
22 before you were nine years old, if you remember. Do you
23 remember those times?
24 A. Yeah. I enjoyed playing. I played with
25 Legos, always constructing things with my Legos. Enjoyed
6117
01 playing out in the yard, in front of the house, with my
02 friends outside. And I enjoyed riding my bike, playing
03 with my pets.
04 Q. Was that about the time you started getting
05 into Indian Guides?
06 A. Yes, it was.
07 Q. I have to switch the medium here. Here we
08 go.
09 In talking to (John Doe #6) the other day about
10 daddy's and their sons painting up and getting into the
11 Indian Guide program -- the guy with the big smile,
12 obviously, would be you.
13 Who is that fella (indicating)?
14 A. That is my father.
15 Q. That is your dad?
16 A. Uh-huh.
17 Q. (father)?
18 A. (Father of John Doe #1 & #6), yes.
19 Q. And you all were in Indian Guides how many
20 years together?
21 A. I don't know. I'm sure at least a couple of
22 years.
23 Q. Some of the same things we heard (John Doe #6) talk
24 about the other day, like -- there you go.
25 How did you earn those -- those -- do those
6118
01 ribbons go with Indian Guides?
02 A. Yes. That was like a little derby that we
03 had. That is a little car that I was holding in my hand.
04 And we met at some school and they had these
05 ramps set up. And we would stand at the top of the ramp
06 and let go of our car and race each other. And the first
07 one that would cross the finish line was the winner. And
08 you would win various ribbons each time you won.
09 Q. And you hoped the wheels didn't come off.
10 A. That's right.
11 Q. Your dad helped you with that project?
12 A. Yes, he did.
13 Q. And did some out -- overnight trips in
14 Indian Guides with your dad?
15 A. Yes. We went camping several times.
16 Q. Let's look at another picture of the (Doe)
17 family here similar to what we saw the other day, but we'll
18 take a look at it right quick here.
19 Your mom and dad, (Mother) and (Father). And
20 you're the middle one?
21 A. The smallest, yes.
22 Q. And this (indicating) is (John Doe #6) on our right?
23 A. Yes, with the white shirt on, yes.
24 Q. And (John Doe #1) next to your mother?
25 A. (john Doe #20) next to my mother, yes.
6119
01 Q. (John Doe #20).
02 A. Yes.
03 Q. Okay. And this is when you were, what,
04 seven, you told me?
05 A. Yes, about seven.
06 Q. This would be a couple of years before you
07 met Rudy Kos.
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. Okay. We'll -- we'll come back to some of
10 these other photographs in just a minute, (John Doe #1).
11 Did you have an interest in any sports when
12 you were young?
13 A. Soccer. I played soccer for about one
14 season. And that is about the only sport I ever played.
15 Q. (John Doe #6) told us the other day about some
16 radio-controlled airplanes, cars and boats?
17 A. Yes. When I got older, me and (John Doe #6) and
18 some other friends, we built and flew radio-controlled
19 airplanes. And I also remember building radio-controlled
20 cars, also.
21 Q. And you had an interest, when you were
22 young, in astronomy.
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. Tell us about that.
25 A. We -- my uncle had sent us a telescope down
6120
01 from Ohio. And he had bought it at a garage sale. It was
02 a big telescope. I used to enjoy taking it out and, you
03 know, checking out the moon or the stars or nebulaes or
04 planets and stuff like that.
05 Q. Sounds like you were a typical kid.
06 A. I think so.
07 Q. Looking back on it, do you feel that way?
08 A. Yes. I enjoyed my childhood, very much so.
09 Q. Tell us when you first met Rudy Kos.
10 A. He was the new assistant pastor at All
11 Saints. At that time my mother was very active in the
12 church. And I used to just -- I was like my mom's shadow.
13 I followed her anywhere she went and would go down with her
14 to the church.
15 I remember my first memories of Father Kos
16 are him chasing me around in the parking lot, trying to
17 tickle me.
18 Q. Trying to tickle?
19 A. Yes. And I would jump into the car and lock
20 the door, because I was real shy at the time. I didn't
21 like to be tickled.
22 Q. Do you remember him grabbing you and giving
23 you bear hugs?
24 A. Yes. He would give me hugs and tickle me.
25 Q. How old were you when you first remember
6121
01 Rudy Kos?
02 A. I was between the ages of seven and nine.
03 it's kind of hard to know exactly when.
04 Q. Let's look at this (indicating) one. I may
05 be backing up with you just a little bit, but let's look at
06 it anyway, if I can get the light on.
07 I did want to -- I did want to look at this.
08 This is some of your church activity?
09 A. Yes, it is. This is --
10 Q. What is your role there?
11 A. I was playing Joseph. And, as I said it,
12 Jophes (phonetic).
13 Q. And you would be on the left.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay.
16 Now according to this slide that I pulled
17 out, you're about five or six years old there.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. All right.
20 So this is still a little bit before you met
21 Rudy Kos.
22 A. Yes, it is.
23 Q. Let me get back to this one right here
24 (indicating) with you, (John Doe #1), if we can. This is when
25 you're seven. This is when you first met Rudy Kos.
6122
01 A. About this time or shortly after, yes.
02 Q. So you do remember him chasing you around
03 the parking lot, trying to grab you and tickle you and you
04 would hide and lock yourself in the car.
05 What else do you remember at that time?
06 A. Not much more.
07 Q. What -- what kind of person did -- as you --
08 your first memories of Rudy -- Father Kos, what -- what
09 comes to mind about some of the things that attracted you
10 to the rectory and to Rudy Kos?
11 A. Well, when I first met Rudy I thought of him
12 as a very fun-loving person, just a big kid himself. When
13 I got a little older and started becoming friends with
14 Rudy, I think what attracted me to him is a lot of the
15 things that he had. He had computers and games and Ataris
16 and always had a lot of kids hanging around him, so.....
17 Q. Movies?
18 A. Movies, yes.
19 So as I would hang out with Rudy, I met
20 other boys and became friends with them.
21 Q. Did -- and you become an altar boy?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. Do you remember what age you were when you
24 become an altar boy?
25 A. About ten years old.
6123
01 Q. Okay. We saw this, also, the other day,
02 but we were looking at somebody else in there, in
03 particular.
04 Is this (indicating) a picture before you
05 were an altar boy?
06 A. Uh, it's kind of hard --
07 Q. You don't have a robe like (John Doe #20) and (John Doe
#6).
08 A. Yeah. We all had our hair parted down the
09 middle.
10 We -- I think it was about that time or just
11 before.
12 Q. Okay.
13 So here you would be about eight or nine,
14 maybe nine years old?
15 A. I would believe so, yes.
16 Q. All right.
17 How did -- tell us -- tell the jury how Rudy
18 -- Father Rudy Kos gained control over you.
19 A. Well, at the time I felt Rudy was my best
20 friend. And, you know, even later on we had problems in
21 our family and I always enjoyed -- not enjoyed, but I liked
22 going to the rectory to escape the tension in the
23 household. I always talked to him. He was like a normal
24 friend I had, you know, but he was older.
25 Q. And being an altar server and your brothers
6124
01 being altar servers, that puts you in close contact with
02 him frequently?
03 A. Oh, yes, and going through altar serving
04 class and all that.
05 Q. Let me just ask you: Why did you want to be
06 an altar server?
07 A. I think the biggest reason was because God
08 was such a priority in my life that I wanted to serve God.
09 And I felt that by volunteering in the church in any way,
10 especially by being an altar server and helping with the
11 mass, I would receive special graces from God.
12 And other reasons, I think, you know, I was
13 following in the footsteps of my brothers. And, you know,
14 my friend at that time, best friend, Father Rudy, was
15 teaching the classes, also.
16 Q. Did he encourage you to be an altar server
17 also?
18 A. Yes, he did.
19 Q. Now at that time it sounds like religion was
20 playing a very big role in your life.
21 A. It was the most important thing.
22 Q. Was it in your home, as well?
23 A. Definitely.
24 Q. What do you remember about the religious
25 life of your home?
6125
01 A. Well, on Sundays we all attended mass
02 together. We had crucifixes and we said prayers in our
03 home and said grace before a meal. We even had a holy
04 water font in our house where we would walk by and stick
05 our finger in the holy water and bless ourself.
06 So it was very apparent in our household.
07 Q. And your mother was extremely active --
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. -- at All Saints Church?
10 A. Yes. She was involved in the construction
11 of All Saints. She was on the Interior Design Committee.
12 She become a Eucharist minister. So she was -- she was
13 very involved.
14 Q. Okay.
15 If you tried to prioritize, in your life at
16 least, if you tried to prioritize God and your church and
17 your family and yourself and your school, how would -- how
18 would you prioritize those things when you were a junior
19 high kid?
20 A. There is no question about it, God was the
21 most important thing in my life, came before family,
22 friends everything.
23 Q. In that connection, how did you see the role
24 of the priest with respect to the most important thing in
25 your life, God?
6126
01 THE COURT: You've got to talk louder.
02 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.
03 THE COURT: That's okay. Lean up.
04 THE WITNESS: I viewed the role of the priest as
05 very important, kind of -- he was there to -- kind of
06 referred to him as the doctor of our soul. He was there
07 to do any repair work that we may have needed. And it was
08 his responsibility or job to make sure we got to heaven.
09 Q. (BY MR. TURLEY) Did -- what did you think
10 about a priest? What were these characteristics that you
11 had in your mind when you were ten and eleven years old?
12 A. I felt that priests were very honest and
13 true and that they lived as an example that we should live
14 and that they were there if we ever needed them for
15 counseling or any type of help or -- they were also there
16 to administer the sacraments, forgive our sins.
17 Q. Did you think about priests in terms of
18 perfection?
19 A. Yes. I thought they were the closest thing
20 to perfection on earth, closest thing to God.
21 Q. Did you think they could do any wrong?
22 A. No. I never thought a priest could sin.
23 Q. Did you think a priest could ever lie to
24 you?
25 A. No.
6127
01 Q. Could you trust a priest?
02 A. Definitely.
03 Q. Was a priest the kind of person, (John Doe #1), that
04 -- or an individual that you would want to emulate or model
05 your life after?
06 A. Oh, yes.
07 Q. Is that how you viewed a priest at that time
08 in your life, I mean?
09 A. They were an example of how we were supposed
10 to live, so being as devout Catholics as we were, we
11 modeled our life after how a priest would model their life.
12 Q. You've heard some of the other young men
13 give their impressions of a priest and described their
14 various characteristics as they saw them at that time.
15 Would those also be the same characteristics, if we went on
16 with this discussion further, that you would chose to
17 describe --
18 A. Yes --
19 Q. -- a priest?
20 A. -- it would be.
21 Q. All right.
22 As I understand from you, this is just how
23 you viewed priests in general before you ever got to know
24 Rudy Kos.