0001
01 NO. 93-05258-G
01
02 JOHN DOE I, et al. ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
02 )
03 )
03 VERSUS ) OF DALLAS COUNTY
04 )
04 REVEREND RUDOLPH KOS, et al. ) 134TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
05
05 REPORTER'S RECORD
06 VOLUME____OF _____
06
07 APPEARANCES:
07
08
08 MR. WINDLE TURLEY
09 Attorney at Law
09 1000 University Tower
10 6440 N. Central Expressway
10 Dallas, Texas 75205
11
11 MS. SYLVIA M. DEMAREST
12 Attorney at Law
12 DEMAREST, SMITH, PRESLAR, JONES & GIUNTA
13 Cedar Maple Plaza
13 2305 Cedar Springs Road, Suite 350
14 Dallas, Texas 75201
14
15 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS
15
16 MR. RANDAL MATHIS
16 MR. DENNIS ROOSSIEN
17 Attorneys at Law
17 MUNSCH, HARDT, KOPF, HARR & DINAN, P. C.
18 4000 Fountain Place
18 1455 Ross Avenue
19 Dallas, Texas 75202-2711
19 FOR THE DIOCESE OF
20 DALLAS
20
21 On the 15th day of July, 1997, the
22 above-entitled and numbered cause came on for a hearing
23 before the Honorable Anne Ashby, Judge presiding of the
24 134th Judicial District Court of Dallas County, Texas, and
25 a jury, at which time the following proceedings were had:
0002
01
02 W-I-T-N-E-S-S-E-S:
03 PAGE
04 THE MOST REVEREND JUDIVCIAL VICAR
04 JOHN PAUL BELL, JR.
05
05 Direct Examination By Mr. Mathis........8949
06 Cross Examination By Ms. Demarest......8959
07 Cross Examination By Mr. Turley........8969
08 Redirect Examination By Mr. Mathis........8977
09 Recross Examination By Ms. Demarest......8982
10 Recross Examination By Mr. Turley........8983
11 Recross Examination By Mr. Turley........8986
12 Recross Examination By Mr. Turley........8989
13 Redirect Examination By Mr. Mathis........8990
14 Redirect Examination By Mr. Mathis........9022
15 Recross Examination By Mr. Turley........9023
16
17 (Father to John Doe #13)
18 Direct Examination By Mr. Mathis........8992
19 Cross Examination By Mr. Turley........9002
20 Redirect Examination By Mr. Mathis........9014
21 Cross Examination By Ms. Demarest......9018
22 Redirect Examination By Mr. Mathis........9019
23 Recross Examination By Mr. Turley........9020
24
25
0003
01 W-I-T-N-E-S-S-E-S:
02 (continued)
03 PAGE
04 (Mother to John Doe #1 and #6)
05 Direct Examination By Mr. Mathis........9091
06 Cross Examination By Mr. Turley........9139
07 Cross Examination By Ms. Demarest......9167
08 Redirect Examination By Mr. Mathis........9170
09 Recross Examination By Mr. Turley........9184
10
10 JOHN LOONEY, Ph.D.
11 BILL OF EXCEPTIONS
12 Direct Examination By Mr. Mathis........9202
13 Cross Examination By Ms. Demarest......9209
14 Cross Examination By Mr. Turley........9223
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0004
01 E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S:
02 Marked Offered Admitted
03 Defendant's Exhibit No. 55.........9089
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8940
01
02
03
04 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S:
05
06 July 15, 1997
07
08 THE COURT: How do you want to go? What is the
09 best way to start? I don't have anything in front of me.
10 Do you want to hand me copies? Hand me mine. All I have
11 is Morial in front of me.
12 MR. TURLEY: Your Honor, at this time I would like
13 to renew our motion that the juror, Mrs. Thomas, now
14 eleven, formerly number twelve juror, be stricken. The
15 reason is not just that she's late and holding us up again,
16 but because she has habitually demonstrated that she will
17 not follow the Court's instructions. And that troubles me
18 a great deal that when she comes to the deliberation stage,
19 she will not follow the Court's instructions. And I think
20 that -- I would like to ask the Court to consider again
21 relieving her and moving up one of the alternates who --
22 who have always been here and apparently would be willing
23 to follow the Court's instruction.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 Response.
8941
01 MS. DEMAREST: And we join in that motion, Your
02 Honor.
03 THE COURT: Okay.
04 MR. MATHIS: I was not even aware she was late
05 this morning, because we're just now getting starting and
06 it's ten till 10:00 and we were supposed to start at 9:30.
07 She has not held anybody up this morning, and now we've got
08 another motion to deal with, so we'll be here a few
09 minutes. I don't think she is failing to follow
10 the Court's instructions. She has been late two or three
11 times in the trial, one of which was a flat tire, a
12 perfectly legitimate explanation. She's been here. She's
13 been attentive through the trial. She has worked very hard
14 through all of these weeks and I don't think this is a
15 basis to drop her off the jury at this point.
16 MR. TURLEY: I think she -- I think she has been
17 late four or five times, maybe this is the fifth time.
18 MR. MATHIS: Well, I don't know what the record
19 will reflect, but the record should clearly reflect that it
20 has not posed any significant delay on anyone, because
21 typically when she has been ten or fifteen minutes late
22 it's been while we were clearing up various other matters
23 outside of the presence of the jury which hasn't delayed
24 anyone.
25 MS. DEMAREST: That's not really --
8942
01 MR. TURLEY: That's not correct.
02 MS. DEMAREST: -- correct at all.
03 THE COURT: She was late for an expert one day.
04 MR. TURLEY: We missed almost two hours with a
05 critical expert, which resulted in us not finishing with
06 him that day, he had to stay over. That extended his
07 testimony more than two hours the following day, aside from
08 the tremendous cost.
09 MR. MATHIS: But that's when she had a flat
10 tire.
11 MS. DEMAREST: And -- and she has been habitually
12 late, and I'm not talking ten or fifteen minutes, we're
13 talking about, you know, much more time than that. So if
14 you add it all up together, it's a significant amount of
15 time in a long trial. We would be finished already were
16 it not for the habitual lateness of the juror --
17 MR. MATHIS: Oh, that's not true.
18 MS. DEMAREST: -- and the delay that this has
19 caused. And I realize --
20 MR. MATHIS: These are typically ten or fifteen
21 minute deals. There was only one significant delay, and I
22 hesitate to even call it significant, was when Dr. Kliman
23 was here and she had a flat tire. She called. She had a
24 perfectly legitimate explanation. No one questioned the
25 truth and sincerity of the explanation. She's been here.
8943
01 She's been an attentive juror. It's a ten week trial. I
02 mean, some people, when they have to drive from someplace,
03 are going to have these kinds of problems. And it hasn't
04 hurt anyone in the case.
05 MS. DEMAREST: That's a mischaracterization of her
06 record. And I want the record to clearly reflect that
07 this juror has been -- she has been late on many occasions.
08 She has been late by longer than ten or fifteen minutes.
09 And, yes, on one occasion with a flat tire, supposed flat
10 tire, she was much later than that. However, there have
11 been other occasions where she's not had an excuse, where
12 she's been, in my recollection, at least an hour late on
13 one occasion and forty-five minutes late on another
14 occasion just that I'm recalling. And I can go back
15 through my notes and probably recall more.
16 You know, I think that it has gotten to the point
17 where it's disruptive to the case. I can recall the Court
18 having to go back there because there were -- there was
19 disruption among the jurors because the other jurors were
20 upset with the fact that she was not on time and they were
21 on time. And the Court I'm certain, and the record will
22 reflect, that the Court went back there and attempted to
23 smooth over that conflict which was going on within the
24 jury. And that's the only conflict we've had within this
25 jury, and it's because the rest of these people are
8944
01 responsible and that one juror is not.
02 And there's no amount of candy coating that can
03 erase the fact this has been disruptive to this trial. We
04 can argue about the degree, but it has been disruptive to
05 this trial, and apparently it's going to continue to be
06 disruptive to the trial.
07 MR. TURLEY: It's a clear signal -- it's a clear
08 signal that this lady -- the only one of the fifteen that I
09 know of that will not or cannot follow the Court's
10 instructions. And that -- I think we should take that as
11 a sign of things to come when she gets in there in the jury
12 room and starts deliberating. We could have a mistrial if
13 somebody doesn't follow the Court's instructions and
14 there's no need for us to take that chance.
15 MR. MATHIS: She has not failed to follow the
16 Court's instructions. And I think that the statements
17 made exaggerate the severity of this. Whatever conflict
18 there was in there about her being late several times, Your
19 Honor went in and talked to the jury. That apparently
20 resolved itself. That jury has been in there laughing and
21 enjoying themselves during breaks and all of us have heard
22 it. They all seem to be getting along fine.
23 She has not failed to follow instructions. She's
24 only had one significant tardiness of an hour or so,
25 however long it was and she called in promptly to indicate
8945
01 that she had a flat tire.
02 MR. TURLEY: Randy, she's thirty minutes late
03 today.
04 MR. MATHIS: Well, but we aren't even ready
05 today.
06 MS. DEMAREST: Well, we would be.
07 MR. MATHIS: No, we would not.
08 MS. DEMAREST: We were all here at 9:30.
09 MR. MATHIS: The Court had a TRO hearing in the
10 morning, and now you have a motion --
11 MR. TURLEY: But she --
12 THE COURT: Well, let me say about my TRO, my TRO
13 was sitting there and I didn't know anything about it. And
14 I'm standing talking, to my bailiff and all of a sudden I
15 realized it was a TRO. So, I mean, it was -- it was
16 something that could have been handled at another point in
17 time.
18 This was the first that I heard we had something to
19 hear. What do you have to hear this morning?
20 MR. MATHIS: Well, they've filed a motion.
21 MS. DEMAREST: Well, there's going to be more on
22 this. I think Mr. Turley has some, as well.
23 MR. TURLEY: I have some hopefully helpful
24 briefs for the Court --
25 THE COURT: Oh, thanks.
8946
01 MR. TURLEY: -- on this issue that Sylvia has
02 brought up on Dr. Looney. And I sent them back to have
03 some more work done on them have. I'll have them back by
04 noon.
05 MS. DEMAREST: We had more stuff when we got back
06 last night. I mean, we've just been barroged by stuff,
07 throughout this trial, from this expert. And it was very
08 clear, when we took his deposition, the remaining work that
09 we had to do and the scope of his testimony. And I think
10 his testimony needs to be limited to that.
11 And we have some serious questions about his
12 qualifications in some areas. And I think that needs to be
13 addressed. There's -- there's some of these materials
14 that are totally improper to go to the jury. He comments
15 on the credibility of witnesses, he decides what's correct
16 and not correct, he decides on what the facts are and he
17 testifies for these plaintiffs. And he just does some
18 things that, you know, not even Dr. Looney can do, you
19 know, that invades the province of the jury and goes well
20 beyond any reasonable expert examination. There are some
21 things that he's probably qualified to do, with some
22 limitation, but there are other things that he's clearly
23 not. And I think it's unfair for all of this work to have
24 been done during the course of this trial.
25 THE COURT: How about we wait until we've got all
8947
01 of our motions in front of us to argue --
02 MR. MATHIS: That would be fine.
03 THE COURT: Let me go see if she's here. You all
04 sit tight.
05 Otherwise, are we ready to roll?
06 MR. MATHIS: You bet.
07 MS. DEMAREST: Yes.
08
08 (Whereupon Judge Ashby left chambers, and a pause
09 was had in the proceedings; thereafter Judge Ashy returned
09 and the following was had:)
10
10
11
12 THE COURT: Let the record reflect she is here
13 about ten -- five till 10:00. Let me talk to her.
14 MR. TURLEY: I guarantee you that when this jury
15 starts to deliberate, this lady is going to be a problem.
16 MS. DEMAREST: And there's no reason for that.
17 We've got jurors who have been here, who are alternates --
18 THE COURT: You all excuse me for just a minute
19 and let me get her and visit with her for just a minute.
20
21 (Whereupon the attorneys left Judge's chambers, and
21 thereafter Ms. Johnson was brought into chambers, and the
22 following was had:)
22
23
24 THE COURT: Okay, this is another morning that
25 you're late. What's going on?
8948
01 JUROR: There was just traffic. They cut it down
02 from Walnut Lane to -- all the way to Yale, so I was just
03 in 75, just stuck.
04 THE COURT: Okay. Did you leave in time?
05 JUROR: Uh-huh, I did.
06 THE COURT: Okay. What time did you leave your
07 house?
08 JUROR: About 8:15, 8:45.
09 THE COURT: You just got really stuck in traffic.
10 JUROR: Yes.
11 THE COURT: Okay. So you're okay? Everything is
12 okay? Your attitude is okay and everything is fine?
13 JUROR: Yes.
14 THE COURT: Okay. That's all I needed to know.
15 (Whereupon the jury was excused from the
15 courtroom and the attorneys were brought back into
16 chambers, and the following was had:)
16
17
18 THE COURT: Let the record reflect I visited with
19 her. She is bright and shiny with smiles and is
20 apologetic. She said she left her house at 8:15 and got
21 stuck in traffic on Walnut. She's sorry. I'm going to
22 respectfully overrule your motion at this point in time and
23 allow you to renew it. And let's get going.
24 (Whereupon the following was had in the
24 courtroom, in the presence of the jury
25 as follows:)
25
8949
MR. MATHIS: Okay, Your Honor, our first witness
03 this morning would be Father John Bell.
04 THE COURT: You've been sworn, haven't you?
05 MR. MATHIS: I think he was sworn the first day.
06 MOST REVEREND JUDICIAL VICAR JOHN PAUL BELL, JR.,
07 the witness, having been duly sworn and cautioned to tell
08 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,
09 testified on his oath as follows:
10 DIRECT EXAMINATION
11 BY MR. MATHIS:
12 Q. Father Bell, would you state your full name
13 for the record, please?
14 A. John Paul Bell, Jr.
15 Q. Okay.
16 Father Bell, I have some questions with
17 regard to Canon law for you, as you know, this morning.
18 Father Bell, you're a priest. Are you with
19 the Dallas Diocese?
20 A. Yes, I am.
21 Q. What is your position with the Dallas
22 Diocese at the current time?
23 A. I'm Judicial Vicar and Chancellor.
24 Q. As Judicial Vicar, are you the priest who
25 would have succeeded now Bishop Fellhauer when he was in
8950
01 that position?
02 A. Correct.
03 Q. Okay.
04 So what year would it be that you first
05 became Judicial Vicar?
06 A. June of 1990.
07 Q. Were you a priest here in the Dallas Diocese
08 before you took that position?
09 A. Yes. I was ordained in 1975.
10 Q. Okay.
11 Where did you go to school?
12 A. Do you want the whole history or just
13 seminary?
14 Q. Well, not high school, maybe, but college to
15 seminary.
16 A. Okay.
17 I attended Holy Trinity Seminary, which is
18 at the University of Dallas, for both my undergraduate and
19 graduate work.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. I received a -- my Bachelors and also a
22 Masters of Divinity.
23 Q. All right.
24 And after that did you also study Canon law?
25 A. Yes, from 1981 to 1983 at Catholic
8951
01 University in Washington, D.C.
02 Q. Okay.
03 And did you receive your degree there in
04 Canon law?
05 A. I received my license in Canon law there,
06 yes.
07 Q. I was going to ask that.
08 Within the Catholic Church is there a
09 licensing procedure with respect to Canon lawyers?
10 A. It comes with the degree. That's the reason
11 why it's called a license.
12 Q. And so at the present time you are licensed
13 under church Canon law to be a Canon lawyer?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. Your job with the Tribunal here in Dallas,
16 what all does that involve, if you can kind of put it in
17 general terms.
18 A. The Judicial Vicar not only is the judge,
19 but is also administrator for the Tribunal. And that will
20 vary from diocese to diocese, depending how big a tribunal,
21 how big the diocese is.
22 Q. And that's the Marriage Tribunal like we've
23 talked about here with Rudy Kos and Mrs. Hetzel?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Let me go through a fairly short list of
8952
01 Canon law matters that I need to make sure that we have
02 there on-the-record.
03 First of all, with respect to the Kos/Hetzel
04 marriage annulment that we've talked about already so much,
05 was -- was that marriage annulled under church Canon law?
06 A. Correct.
07 Q. All right.
08 And were the grounds for the annulment --
09 for that annulment valid under church Canon law?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Okay. All right.
12 Now, Father, are -- are there canons that
13 have to do with the relationship of the bishop to the
14 priests and the priests to the bishop and the internal
15 relationships of everybody?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. All right.
18 Can you tell us -- and you a can refer to --
19 you have a copy there of what we marked as Defendant's
20 Exhibit 8 earlier, the -- it's a different copy, but it's
21 the Code of Canon Law.